When CLM’s 2023 “Phenoms Under 40” were presented with the opportunity to take the stage and be recognized at the 2024 Annual Conference in San Francisco, they not only discussed their professional journeys and successes so far, but they also provided valuable advice for both young and more experienced attendees in the audience.
During the conference’s first premier session on April 3, eight of last year’s 10 CLM Magazine “Phenoms Under 40” winners engaged in a lively discussion about their careers and what it takes to stand out as a young claims and litigation professional. Below are some highlights from the discussion.
The Importance of Mentorship
Kelly Petter, partner, Gerber Ciano Kelly Brady: “I think that there’s a huge difference between being a leader in your organization and being a mentor. Anyone can be a leader in your organization, but being someone’s mentor is something special. I don’t think you can tell someone that you’re their mentor. I think they should tell you that…you’re their mentor. And that comes with a level of trust.”
As far as leadership style, Petter continued, “I heard a lot as a young attorney about leading with vulnerability. And I didn’t really understand what that meant. Especially as a young woman in the practice, I worried a lot about what it meant to lead with vulnerability…. The way I like to describe it to a lot of the associates I work with is, we’re birds, we’re in the nest, and I’m going to push you out…and you’re not going to think you’re ready, but I’m going to make you do it. And what I promise you, is that I’m going to catch you. So, if you don’t [succeed], I’m going to be there to pick you right back up and put you right back in the nest.”
Furthermore, Petter explained the importance of building relationships, networking, and taking on mentorship roles to avoid staffing problems. “And I think within CLM, it comes with these opportunities. It comes with making someone speak, helping them set up a panel, making introductions to industry professionals so that proposals can be submitted, making introductions so that articles can be submitted—but it really comes from someone making those introductions…I think mentorship plays a huge role in the success of this industry. I think as more people are leaving the industry, it’s going to become more and more important that we take on mentorship roles and teach others to follow in our footsteps; otherwise, we’re going to have a real problem staffing at all levels.”
Reaching the Next Generation
Gracemarie Mende, director, auto claims, Arch Insurance Group Inc.: “We need to start with getting ourselves out there. I try and relate back to the younger generation and take the fun parts of our jobs—not the insurance part of my job that I’m a nerd about with coverage and contracts and risk transfer—I take the fun stuff. When I have a monkey that walks into a bar that someone has on their shoulder that jumps from person to person, and now I have a premises claim that somebody slipped and fell because they were afraid of the monkey, and I show that to people, and I take those instances where I [ask], ‘Hey, who likes watching Law and Order or FBI?’ or different TV shows, and I try to relate it back to what they’re doing. They find it interesting…and you find people really starting to get into the conversation…. We forget to do that to people in the next generation.”
Entrusting Young Professionals to Build Confidence
Katie Grove, partner, McAngus, Goudelock & Courie, LLC: “Early in my career I got a direct referral from a client who I’d met a few times through firm events, and I immediately panicked. I didn’t feel like I was ready. I wanted to stay in the nest of my mentor, and so I went down to his office and told him about it…and I was hoping and assuming he would just say that he would take it over, that of course I wasn’t ready, but he didn’t. He looked at me and he confidently said that I was ready to handle it and that he was there to help me if I needed anything and that he would help guide me…The trust that the client and my mentor had in me to allow me to take on this new challenge and handle this was monumental. It gave me a sense of pride that I could handle it…Over the time I’ve been with the firm, there are very few memories that are as vivid as when our file clerk printed my name and put it up on the file shelf and put my one single file there…I took a picture and sent it to my mom…it was a really big deal for me.”
Grove continued, “When young professionals embark on a professional journey they want to be challenged, they want to feel like their job is meaningful and that it has a greater purpose. By allowing them to take on these challenges and these steps, you really allow them to have that fulfillment that they’re looking for, and the happiness and the job.”
Grove advised, “don’t wait for the young professionals to come to you and say that they’re ready for an opportunity. If you feel like they’re ready, find the opportunity, give it to them and let them run with it. And then to the young professionals in the room, my advice is the same—don’t sit back and wait for the opportunity to present itself. If you see an opportunity, take it.”
Advice for Young Professionals
It’s Okay to Say No
Taylor Rawal, litigation specialist, SECURA Insurance Company: “Sometimes, it feels [like] we’re in this ‘yes mentality’ world, and saying ‘no’ can feel really uncomfortable, especially for young professionals just starting out and trying to find their place. Maybe they don’t feel they have the tenure to say no, maybe they don’t know how to say no, and they’re just taking on so much extra stuff—which is fine, but when you’re asked to take on all those extra things, it’s usually because the person trusts you and they value your competence. So…you feel like [saying no could put] a wall up, potentially, for your career. But it’s not.”
Rawal continued, “I challenge you to redirect those feelings. Rather than feeling pressured to say yes, or feeling guilty, or maybe some FOMO (fear of missing out)…let’s redirect those feelings to you being intentional with your goal setting by choosing paths and opportunities that align with your career goals rather than becoming so indispensable that you’re leading yourself to burnout and you’re jeopardizing your quality of work…Saying no is actually a way of saying yes to yourself and to the things that matter most to you.”
Get Involved
Chris Dunnells, partner, DunbarMonroe, PLLC.: “If you want to know how to get involved, you can get involved. CLM is great, but it’s truly not that different than other organizations that are member-run, in that they’re always looking for articles, they’re always looking for webinars, they’re always looking for topics; they’re always looking for ways to get engaged and get involved. And for young professionals out there, this is your call to arms. This is your moment to take advantage of generations before you that might not feel the need to be as involved, generations under you who are just generalized as being not as motivated to go above and beyond—this is your chance to get involved. To volunteer to speak. To volunteer to write a publication. To get connected with someone else who’s already involved and ask them ‘how did you get to where you are?’”
Before tackling these opportunities, however, Dunnells continued, one thing to focus on first is to “be good at your job. Just do good work. If you’re an attorney, do good work for your clients. If you’re an adjuster, do good work for your company. Do that first, then start trying to get involved, and I promise you’re going to skyrocket.”
Work When No One Else is Working
James Luce, senior claims counsel, OOIDA: “When others are out of the office…that’s when people start looking for someone else to help. And how I got tremendous opportunities, in my opinion, was when my boss was on vacation, I was there to step up. And if no one else wants to work between Christmas and New Years, this is a prime opportunity to get to do things you may never get to do otherwise…when you’re young and looking for opportunities, sometimes they’re right in front of you and they don’t cost anything, you don’t have to go anywhere—you just have to realign simple decisions like when you take PTO [paid time off] or don’t. And for me, that was one opportunity that really presented itself because when everybody’s gone, someone’s got to be there to take over, and when you show you can do it, you’ve done it.”
Seize Opportunities
Carlos Fernández, attorney, Freeman Mathis & Gary, LLP, started his career in family law before pivoting to prosecution, and he has enjoyed seizing many of the opportunities that have come his way. “I just wanted to tell stories. And so far, that principle and that person who I was in law school has not failed me. I attribute a lot of that to the success and being at my firm surrounded by other people who have that same mentality. I think that’s what has really enabled me switch around so often and retool what I do have and what I can learn,” he concluded.
Kindness for Success
Zachary Schwartz, partner, Koeller Nebecker Carlson Haluck LLP: “Obviously, we are in a very stressful profession. As a defense attorney, I’m dealing with very aggressive plaintiffs’ counsel who are trying to extract millions of dollars from my clients. I have clients who are upset about being sued and they’re stressed out. You’re trying to get cooperation from witnesses and they don’t want to be involved. It can be a lot to handle. So, I always try to have interactions with people that try to be a relief from all that stress, and I do that from being friendly and kind, whatever I can be.
“I was at a medium-sized firm and there’s a lot a lot of attorneys, and you’re trying to figure out, ‘How am I going to stand out? How am I going to make partner?’ And number one, it was always hard work. I don’t think there’s any substitute for working hard. But the second thing was being kind and friendly to everyone you work with, whether it’s the file clerks, the secretaries, the receptionists, other partners—just be kind to people. You can be the hardest workers, but if people don’t like you, you’re not going to get very far in your career.
“As far as in litigation, in order to foster relationships with my clients and individuals being sued…you gotta be kind, you gotta help them through that. And it’s more than just being nice. It’s actively listening, being empathetic, and extending genuine respect. And that’s how you get the buy-in, that’s how you get the trust, and then they perform better for you, whether it’s in deposition or trial.”